Multiple yeasts in a single batch

iguenard · Post by **iguenard** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:16 pm

I have been talking to some commercial brewers trying to get tips to improve the fermentation of my higher gravity beers.

For example, over the holidays I've brewed a 103 IBU monster that should finish primary fermentation at around 9.6% in a few weeks. But the sugars in this 27kg-grainbill monster can have it climb to 17% if I so "encouraged" it.

For the sake of balance, all I need is to get it at 12%. This is beyond my initial yeast's alcohol tolerance, but I really wanted to get that specific yeast's esters in my mix.

Some brewers told me they go with 3 yeasts. One for primary, another pitch in for secondary, and finally, sometimes a third for bottle fermentation.

Have any of you ever had success in doing this, and how are the specific characteristics of each yeast affected by the order in which they are pitched?

Thanks for youe answers. Tough question, but one that is racking my brain these days.

Cheers!

Ian, in Ottawa.

matt7215 · Post by **matt7215** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:57 pm

wow, first of all congrats on your brew. i have only ever used two different yeasts additions in my homebrews. i brewed a belgian pale ale and added brett in secondary with great results and i also brewed a big stout that needed a big starter for primary and a new pack of dried yeast in secondary to acheive my FG target. repitching is probably the way to go with the brew you have but be careful with pitching to close to bottling, no one wants bottle bombs. id let primary settle down and then transfer to secondary, if you havnt reach your target FG then pitch again with a high alcohol tolerent yeast strain. that should be all you need to get you down to your target FG and get you ready for bottles, or keg!

markaberrant · Post by **markaberrant** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:24 am

It is very possible to push the ABV of beer to the levels you mentioned, but the methods I've read about involve incremental feedings of wort and using lots of simple sugars... I've rarely heard of successfully using multiple yeast strains to accomplish this, unless you want to look at adding beano and/or champagne yeast.

There are lots of other methods to consider if you are trying to improve the fermentation of higher gravity beers. Most of them centre around wort composition (ie; fermentability), and fermentation procedures (ie; yeast health, yeast count, temperatures, etc).

I'm still not sure how you figure you can get 17% out of your current beer, and that 12% would be balanced. Do you mind posting your recipe and OG? And how do you know the initial yeast can't go to 12%? I ask because a lot of yeast manufacturer info is not entirely accurate, there is no way they can account for every type of brewing scenario.

By the way, sounds like you are doing some interesting brewing. I suggest you submit some entries to the NHC Canadian Qualifier!

iguenard · Post by **iguenard** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:14 am

Totalitarian Pale Ale II
----------------------------------
Style Imperial IPA
IBU: 103.3
OG: 1.122 / 28.4 P'
Yeast: WYeast American Ale (73-77 Att)
Proj. Alcohol %: 12 % alc./vol at average Att
Volume: 40.3 L
Boil: 120 min

Grain Bill
----------------------------------
20.0 Kg Pale Ale Malt
6.0 Kg Honey malt
1.0 Kg Crystal 75L

Hops
----------------------------------
100 g @ 60 min Centennial 10.2 % A.A.
102 g @ 60 min Cascade 6% A.A.

-- Hop method: continuous
18 g @ 55 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 50 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 45 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 40 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 35 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 30 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 25 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 20 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 15 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 10 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)
18 g @ 5 min Cascade Flower (thanks steve)

The american Ale yeast is alco tolerant up to 10%. Which would leave my Gravity at 1.047, plenty of fermentable sugars still. Adding another yeast thats very alcohol tolerant could reduce my gravity to 1.010 leaving the beer at 15% alcohol. I want to halt it at 12 %, to have enough residual sugars in the recipee to balance that hops. I do plan to dry hop with 200g of Cascade.

Adding fermentable sugars in secondary to raise gravity at the same time could help me get to 17%, which my original recipee permitted. Believe it or not, this is a scaled down version of my original IIPA.

I'm currently in primary, with a gravity of 1.054 and getting better.

markaberrant · Post by **markaberrant** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:24 am

I'd suggest adding the new VSS strain - Wyeast 9093-PC Imperial Blend. Make a massive starter and let 'er rip.

iguenard · Post by **iguenard** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:35 pm

Wow, read up on it on the WYeast website. That stuff looks good. Anyone know where I can get my hands on this near Ottawa?

iguenard · Post by **iguenard** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:05 pm

In case you guys are interested, I brewed this early January and kegged it last night.

This has got to be the best brew I have ever concocted. It currently tastes like a clone of the Three Floyds Behemoth. The lupulin is not even well integrated yet to the rest of the body. This thing will only get better with age.

To all the other brewers out there with a taste for over-the-top IPAs, give this recipee a try and let me know!

Thanks to all who responded. Hope to share one with you all one day.

Gedge · Post by **Gedge** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:10 am

Wow - that's a lotta grain! Would like to take a stab at this recipe when I get a tun with more capacity.

markaberrant · Post by **markaberrant** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:51 am

What was the final gravity?

iguenard · Post by **iguenard** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:14 am

1.044 with American Ale WYeast.

iguenard · Post by **iguenard** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:15 am

Wow - that's a lotta grain! Would like to take a stab at this recipe when I get a tun with more capacity.

I actually dont have the tun for this also. What I did was mash in two consecutive batches, pool the worts together and boil for 120 min.