Parti-gyle Extract Ratio

cannondale · Post by **cannondale** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:42 am

I'm planning a parti-gyle mash this weekend (1st runnings: belgian IPA tripel; second runnings: belgian pale ale) and so I'm trying to anticipate as close as possible the extract ratio for equal volumes (6 L per batch) using no sparge in a rectangular cooler MLT. The literature available is indicating 60:40 for the most part, but I'm seeing a fairly wide range of alternate results as well. Presumably it depends on a number of factors.

Anyone have experience with parti-gyle in a similar set-up and care to share the extract ratio they observed?

grub · Post by **grub** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:10 am

this is what i usually go by. the numbers worked out fairly well the one time i used it: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/librar ... osher.html

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:52 pm

I've only done one... with an infusion mash using a copper manifold.

The ~7.5 Gallons of first runnings boiled down to ~5.5 Ga with a gravity of 1.090 (66% efficiency).

I capped the mash with a little grain & the next ~6 gallons were boiled down to ~4.5 gallons with a gravity of 1.036. I added a pound of molases to bring that dry stout up to 1.044 (IIRC).

Calculating the sugar points, my overall efficiency was 78%.

See calculating SWIG gavity in the table:
http://www.strangebrew.ca/swig/#_Brewing:_A_Step

I think the biggest factor is your efficiency for the first runnings (how much sugar is left for the second), so it's really dependent on your system.

With a Belgian pale ale, you could really use any sugar to top of the gravity if you had to.

cannondale · Post by **cannondale** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:12 pm

So Derek it looks like you were a little closer to 70:30 with respect to extract ratio.

I'd rather err on the side of caution to minimize sugar addition for the belgian pale ale, so I'll adjust my base grain accordingly. But I will have some Turbinado on hand if necessary (I'd rather not use any more than 0.5 lbs as I don't want it to finish overly dry). I'm aiming for 1.056 OG. Incidentally, I'll be capping the second runnings with caramunich and a very small amount of chocolate malt. Hopping with crystal and tettnanger.

The belgian IPA tripel will be rounded out with cane sugar to hit somewhere around 1.080 OG.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:51 pm

Without the cap, it was more like 75/25.

My final runnings were still 1.017, so I could've sparged & boiled longer to do better than the 78% efficiency. Though 78% is actually the best I've done... and I didn't want to over-sparge & have it too grainy.

If you're getting even better efficiency, you'll obviously have less sugar available for the second runnings. So yeah, there seems to be huge variability in the splits people get.

Sparge efficiency complicates things... but with no sparge, I would think that everyone's results would be more consistent (less system dependent).

I've never batched sparged, but my gut feeling is that the first runnings wouldn't be as efficient... but since you stir the second batch & eliminate channeling, the second 'runnings' may be a little more efficient (which is why batch spargers are still able to obtain similar overall efficiencies).

cannondale · Post by **cannondale** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:28 pm

Derek wrote:Without the cap, it was more like 75/25.

My final runnings were still 1.017, so I could've sparged & boiled longer to do better than the 78% efficiency. Though 78% is actually the best I've done... and I didn't want to over-sparge & have it too grainy.

If you're getting even better efficiency, you'll obviously have less sugar available for the second runnings. So yeah, there seems to be huge variability in the splits people get.

Sparge efficiency complicates things... but with no sparge, I would think that everyone's results would be more consistent (less system dependent).

I've never batched sparged, but my gut feeling is that the first runnings wouldn't be as efficient... but since you stir the second batch & eliminate channeling, the second 'runnings' may be a little more efficient (which is why batch spargers are still able to obtain similar overall efficiencies).

That's more or less my take on it too.

The other issue I'm considering is mash temperature. For the IPA tripel I'd like to mash low (145-149), whereas for the pale ale ideally I'd be around 152. So either I split the difference and mash at around 150, or I mash low but add a bit of carapils to keep the body up for the pale ale. I'm not worried about the impact that a little carapils will have on the IPA tripel's FG, because obviously I'll be adding a healthy dose of cane sugar so it's going to attenuate well. The other potential advantage I see in adding the carapils is that in the event that the second runnings come up short in terms of OG and I have to add sugar, I won't have as much of a body issue as I'd have without the carapils.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:24 pm

How much carapils do you plan to add?

I'm no expert, but I'd consider leaving it out of the first batch, and just using it to cap the second... maybe a pound?

To get that gravity for the pale, you may need an extended boil as well (and reduce the volume a little). If you're boiling one pot, that'll make the measurements & time estimates easier. I'm still using 2 pots on the stove, and for the partigyle, I had a bunch of other kitchen pots all over the place!

I really just saw the second runnings as a way to use up some old hops & have an 'almost' free brew. It turned out surprisingly well!

cannondale · Post by **cannondale** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:33 am

I was thinking maybe 1/2 lb of the carapils, and adding it to the cap for the second runnings crossed my mind too. The only issue there is that carapils has to be mashed, otherwise I run the risk of adding a significant amount of unconverted starch to the wort. Plan is to allow the second runnings infusion to rest for just 10-20 minutes. I'm not sure that's enough time for sufficient conversion and extraction?

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:20 pm

I did a mini mash on the side (1/2# crystal, 1.5# pale and 2 oz of roasted barley for the stout), then added that to the MLT.

I pulled out my old, little mash tun (which I now use as a bottling bucket)... but I really could've just done it on the stove top with a kitchen pot.

cannondale · Post by **cannondale** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:22 pm

I think that's just what I'll do.

Unfortunately, the parti-gyle will have to wait until next weekend however. The la chouffe clone (from which I'm going to re-use the 3522 for both parti-gyle beers) that I brewed last weekend is still going strong and has not attenuated to the point where I feel comfortable racking it to secondary.

In a few weeks, after I've done the IPA tripel and the belgian pale ale, I think I may do another couple brews reusing the yeast again. Maybe a belgian scotch ale (along the lines of mc chouffe) or something like n'ice chouffe.

Anyone ever take a crack at n'ice chouffe? All I know thus far is from their website: 20°P, 10% abv, thyme, curacao. I'm assuming pilsner malt base, probably some special B, and likely just a bittering hop addition of something like styrian or EK goldings. Any thoughts on a formulation?