Ola Dubh 40 in the T-dot?

[Bobsy]

Am I the only one who feels the hype and hand wringing generated for this beer is unwarranted? Sure, it looks like a damn fine brew from looking at the rating sites, and I've found the 12 and 30 to be solid, but from the way people are acting it sounds like the elixir of the gods. A little perspective will show you its far more expensive per ounce than far, far better beers. Heck... its five times more expensive than peche mortel. Its more expensive than Cantillon retails in Buffalo. Dark Lord sells for what... $15 a bomber?

I'm happy for those who got hold of some (myself included), but don't go expecting anything on the quality level of similarly priced brews. We live in such a shitty system that one decent beer turning up creates a frenzy. Its ridiculous.

[Torontoblue]

Am I the only one who feels the hype and hand wringing generated for this beer is unwarranted? Sure, it looks like a damn fine brew from looking at the rating sites, and I've found the 12 and 30 to be solid, but from the way people are acting it sounds like the elixir of the gods. A little perspective will show you its far more expensive per ounce than far, far better beers. Heck... its five times more expensive than peche mortel. Its more expensive than Cantillon retails in Buffalo. Dark Lord sells for what... $15 a bomber?

I'm happy for those who got hold of some (myself included), but don't go expecting anything on the quality level of similarly priced brews. We live in such a shitty system that one decent beer turning up creates a frenzy. Its ridiculous.

There was bound to be a frenzy over this, what with the exclusivity of the beer, such a small amount coming to the province, and the one-upmanship getting this beer would give.

And that is what is occuring throughout the craft beer universe now; small batch brews to create a frenzy whether the beer is any good or not seems secondary, it's the Must Have Mentality.

[JerCraigs]

Am I the only one who feels the hype and hand wringing generated for this beer is unwarranted?

The completist in me really wants to try it, but the realist has decided not to be overly disappointed if I miss out on it. I tried some of the other Old Dubhs from Buffalo and thought they were okay, but not really worth the cost for me personally. If I try it I try it, if I don't I don't.

[Belgian]

Am I the only one who feels the hype and hand wringing generated for this beer is unwarranted? Sure, it looks like a damn fine brew from looking at the rating sites, and I've found the 12 and 30 to be solid, but from the way people are acting it sounds like the elixir of the gods. A little perspective will show you its far more expensive per ounce than far, far better beers. Heck... its five times more expensive than peche mortel. Its more expensive than Cantillon retails in Buffalo. Dark Lord sells for what... $15 a bomber?

I'm happy for those who got hold of some (myself included), but don't go expecting anything on the quality level of similarly priced brews. We live in such a shitty system that one decent beer turning up creates a frenzy. Its ridiculous.

I like what you're saying. You don't have any do you (only kidding!)

I do completely agree, it's not a better or worse beer for the price, nor are many I would drink more or less of regardless of the price. It's completely extravagant, by definition something you really don't need to buy. So? Who cares!! It's the experience of partaking in something unique that can be appreciated on its own merit. The whiskey in the wood was casked in the year Hendrix played Woodstock. The cost of obtaining these irreplaceable casks is not a joke, and they could be used to produce this exact beer only one time. I like that. There is 'humor' in that, there is life and poetry in it! It has nothing to do with Péché Mortel or the cost of making either, which is all irrelevant.

All of which is saying, decrying the 'frenzy' or 'cost' is missing the real point here: appreciating what something is, and forgetting all else. It's fun. Nobody's dying from it.

Anyway - there's plenty of half-bottles of wine that sell for more than this that were probably way cheaper & easier to produce. The cost of this is a joke by wine standards.

[kwjd]

Just grabbed 7 bottles from Summerhill .

And I just 6 - sheepishly I realize that is 1.66% of the entire shipment to Ontario. I will definitely share them though, with 150,000 other Ontarians. Hell it's rarer here than Westy 12, a beer that's 100% private & gray market. Just in case this encourages anyone to buy at least one OD-40!!

Ah, I think you guys just beat me to it... What time did you get it at? I left work early to get there as soon as I could. Was there at about 5:40 or so and was told they just sold out. Stupid TTC took me forever to get up from downtown... if I find out I missed it by only 10 minutes, then I have 2 government monopolies to blame!

I picked up the 12 and trying it now. If I get a chance, I'd like to try the 40 at some point and compare.

[lister]

Couldn't be bothered with the mad dash nor the price for the 40 so I picked up a couple of 12s at the Spadina & Dundas LCBO.

[Bobsy]

Am I the only one who feels the hype and hand wringing generated for this beer is unwarranted? Sure, it looks like a damn fine brew from looking at the rating sites, and I've found the 12 and 30 to be solid, but from the way people are acting it sounds like the elixir of the gods. A little perspective will show you its far more expensive per ounce than far, far better beers. Heck... its five times more expensive than peche mortel. Its more expensive than Cantillon retails in Buffalo. Dark Lord sells for what... $15 a bomber?

I'm happy for those who got hold of some (myself included), but don't go expecting anything on the quality level of similarly priced brews. We live in such a shitty system that one decent beer turning up creates a frenzy. Its ridiculous.

I like what you're saying. You don't have any do you (only kidding!)

I do completely agree, it's not a better or worse beer for the price, nor are many I would drink more or less of regardless of the price. It's completely extravagant, by definition something you really don't need to buy. So? Who cares!! It's the experience of partaking in something unique that can be appreciated on its own merit. The whiskey in the wood was casked in the year Hendrix played Woodstock. The cost of obtaining these irreplaceable casks is not a joke, and they could be used to produce this exact beer only one time. I like that. There is 'humor' in that, there is life and poetry in it! It has nothing to do with Péché Mortel or the cost of making either, which is all irrelevant.

All of which is saying, decrying the 'frenzy' or 'cost' is missing the real point here: appreciating what something is, and forgetting all else. It's fun. Nobody's dying from it.

Anyway - there's plenty of half-bottles of wine that sell for more than this that were probably way cheaper & easier to produce. The cost of this is a joke by wine standards.

Belgian, you don't have to tell me that. Obviously the decision and value in the purchase of a beer rests with each individual, but this applies to a product whatever the cost, and 'decrying' the frenzy is not missing the point at all because I think it says something very important about the beer scene in this province as well as this forum.

Firstly, I find it somewhat sad and depressing that we live in a system where a beer like Ola Dubh 40 generates the kind of mad rush for bottles that you see at limited bottle releases south of the border. Realistically if you gave anyone on the forum $18 and set them loose in Premier Gourmet this beer would not be on their list. Ola Dubh 40 is simply not on the radar for most people in the States or elsewhere. Its obviously a damn fine brew, but far from the finest to grace our shelves (how many people walk by Duvel and Aventinus on every visit to the LCBO?), and from the reaction I've perceived you'd think the LCBO had just brought in a few cases of westy 12. A large part of this is down to the fact that so few great beers do make it to the LCBO that when one does, everybody with a keen interest in beer wants to try some, and obviously the limited order number amplifies that. Another factor is that our local breweries are not consistently brewing and bottling anything that remotely comes close to world class beer. There are some notable exceptions - Denison's springs to mind - but there are really very few that make you sit up and take notice, which again focuses attention on the beers brought in by the LCBO that do. To summarise this point - does the rapid sale of this stock say more about the quality of this beer or the quality of the beer regularly available to us?

Secondly, on a different level, I think this forum unintentionally inflates the standing of certain beers to a heady extent, perhaps because we lack a number of good examples for comparison. Posting in bartowel is like living in a fishbowl - everything is magnified and you're separated from the wider world. Ola Dubh is just one example of several beers that are bigged up here that wouldn't cause much of a splash elsewhere.

Y'all free to disagree - I'm often wrong about a lot of things.

[ritzkiss]

Y'all free to disagree - I'm often wrong about a lot of things.

Yeah, I'll take you on just because I like you and who doesn't like playing Devil's Advocate.

I find it somewhat sad and depressing that we live in a system where a beer like Ola Dubh 40 generates the kind of mad rush for bottles that you see at limited bottle releases south of the border.

Hard to argue about the depressing state of the system, though arguably the hyped releases in the South aren't because they're the best beer in the world but because of the hype 'train' that builds them up as 'must have' beers - which is pretty similar to what just happened with Ola Dubh 40.

Realistically if you gave anyone on the forum $18 and set them loose in Premier Gourmet this beer would not be on their list.

That's probably true but you keep referring to this mythical Buffalo place as if we can all pop over there after work. I hazard a guess that most people on this forum don't go there more than 2-3 times a year (though there are a few who go far more often!). Some people probably just don't/can't go. In those 2-3 trips I doubt people haul back enough beer to supply their needs 100%. As you mentioned later, there's nothing to little of note in the Ontario beer scene in bottles - so if I have to choose between drinking another Wellington Dark or Ola Dubh 40 I might rush out to get some 40 regardless of the price. I for one am willing to pay a premium for quality - I just wish some Ontario brewers realized this.

As for pricing, you mention $20 will buy you a Darklord or a Cantillon which is true. It's also true that by going over the border, travel costs, duty (if you get unlucky), etc... makes that $20 US Cantillon now $23-30 Canadian.

Posting in bartowel is like living in a fishbowl - everything is magnified and you're separated from the wider world.

Sure it is! But you're preaching to the choir.. or is it from the choir?

Ola Dubh is just one example of several beers that are bigged up here that wouldn't cause much of a splash elsewhere.

You bet, though I prefer to gauge my beer on taste rather than 'splash'. Which leads to the final counter-argument of my statement -

does the rapid sale of this stock say more about the quality of this beer or the quality of the beer regularly available to us?

Of course it says everything about what's regularly available to us!! Ontario Brewers, while likely grumbling about the suckers who pay $20 for a beer, should be taking note and seeing that if they produced a quality beer year round they would have no problem selling it. I'm not talking quality like "gosh, golly they made another biscuity IPA" but something like, say, Red Racer IPA that kicks butt right along with American counterparts, or say like a nice whiskey barrel aged stout. REAL nice. But that's not likely to happen in the near future so we are stuck racing to the LCBO to shell out $20 for a beer, wishing like hell it didn't have to be so hard.

And that, dear bobsy, is my brief. I would say 'feel free to disagree' but I know you will anyways!

[viggo]

Well Barley Days Cherry Porter is almost $16 a 6 pack, they seem to know what they're doing as always.

[Bobsy]

I for one am willing to pay a premium for quality - I just wish some Ontario brewers realized this.

I couldn't agree with you more on this. I spend a lot at the LCBO, and would prefer it if I could spend all my beer money locally, but as folks will readily admit we're lacking in a lot of areas. This Friday I'll be picking up some Cantillon Lou Pepe in Buffalo because there's not a single lambic or sour on the market here (unless you count multiple unintentional examples). What frustrates me is that we do make great one-offs, and some really neat draught beers, but they never make that transition to the LCBO despite the fact that there's a hardcore market that will support a quality high-priced beer (as we've seen in this case).

Having said this, I have noticed that some brewers are playing around with higher priced offerings. Mill Street have their baleywine, Great Lakes with their seasonals, and Trafalgar with their fresh hopped stuff. However, the quality doesn't always satisfy as much as you would hope. Ontario guys - you can sell beer at a higher price, but it has to be worth it for the consumer.

As for pricing, you mention $20 will buy you a Darklord or a Cantillon which is true. It's also true that by going over the border, travel costs, duty (if you get unlucky), etc... makes that $20 US Cantillon now $23-30 Canadian.

You're right, and hopefully we don't get dinged on Friday, but I'd also like to point out that those Cantillon and Darklord prices are for twice as much liquid. Scaling the Ola Dubh up to that size would be a cost of C$37. Would this be a beer deserving of $37 for a bomber, and can it match the quality of something similarly priced? Tough to say... I did buy a couple because I've been interested in trying this since having the 30 at Coles, so we'll see, but considering its now the most expensive beer per ounce I've bought I don't think it will vault into my top 50.

Which leads to the final counter-argument of my statement -

does the rapid sale of this stock say more about the quality of this beer or the quality of the beer regularly available to us?

Of course it says everything about what's regularly available to us!!

Its not a counter argument when you're agreeing with a rhetorical question, you idiot!

Well Barley Days Cherry Porter is almost $16 a 6 pack, they seem to know what they're doing as always.

[Belgian]

All of which is saying, decrying the 'frenzy' or 'cost' is missing the real point here: appreciating what something is, and forgetting all else. It's fun. Nobody's dying from it.

Belgian, you don't have to tell me that. Obviously the decision and value in the purchase of a beer rests with each individual, but this applies to a product whatever the cost, and 'decrying' the frenzy is not missing the point at all because I think it says something very important about the beer scene in this province as well as this forum.

Firstly, I find it somewhat sad and depressing that we live in a system where a beer like Ola Dubh 40 generates the kind of mad rush for bottles that you see at limited bottle releases south of the border.

Idealistically you are right on. But realistically we live right here. Nobody's arguing with you I think. It's just that change here is slower than continental drift, so the situation will remain ridiculous for some time. And so I guess I will try to make the best of it, rather than make sense of it.

Commentary / debate around this is always more fun & interesting than it is conclusive or effective, but cheers to that regardless.

[carguy]

I just picked up some of the Ola Dubh 12 right here in Cambridge, at the LCBO at Franklin and Dundas. The store isn't showing any inventory online, but it's there none-the-less. I bought 2, and there are still about 8 left on the shelf. Interestingly, the same shelf also has DDC Corne du Diable and Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout, which again, aren't showing up on the website inventory for that store. It was like hitting the jackpot! Except of course when I went to the cash, as I spent quite a bit more than I intended to.

[matt7215]

I just picked up some of the Ola Dubh 12 right here in Cambridge, at the LCBO at Franklin and Dundas. The store isn't showing any inventory online, but it's there none-the-less. I bought 2, and there are still about 8 left on the shelf. Interestingly, the same shelf also has DDC Corne du Diable and Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout, which again, aren't showing up on the website inventory for that store. It was like hitting the jackpot! Except of course when I went to the cash, as I spent quite a bit more than I intended to.

all 3 of those products currently show inventory at store #95. thx for the heads up on the 12 though

[northyorksammy]

the discussion here is among the most important I have seen on Bar Towel. Thanks Bobsy and Belgian for your well written comments. Ontario brewers, take note!

[carguy]

I think Ontario brewers are making good beer, but are lacking either the will or means to distribute them beyond Toronto. I recall reading a lot on here about Black Oak's 10 Bitter Years, and Durhams Black Eye, but the fact that they are only sold on tap in a handful of Toronto bars makes them avaliable to an even more limited audience than the Ola Dubh will be making it to. Even if they bottled and just sold direct from the brewery, I'd be more likely to go and get some (like I do every year for the Nutcracker Porter). Durham especally frustrates me because they have some very excellent beers, but only bottle the Signature Ale and C'est What Hemp Ale. If I could buy bottles of Durham Hop Addict, I'd be a regular at the brewery for sure. I can think of lots of others. Mill Street for example makes a lot of great beer, but only bottles a handful. I would be much more likely to go to Toronto, visit four or five local breweries and pick up some bottles from each and then scuttle back to Cambridge to enjoy them at my leasiure if they bottled some of their stuff that isn't sold by the LCBO or TBS. But I'm not making a trip to Toronto to visit local breweries if they only sell what I can buy here at my local LCBO.

I suppose this sounds like the frustrated rant of "an out-of-towner", but my orginial point was that there are some world class Ontario beers, just not many of us get to drink them.