Activator vs Propagator

[Derek]

Hey Mark,

I tried my first doppelsticke on the weekend & absolutely loved it.

I see on the northernbrewer forum you did a Doppelsticke last year:

So I made this back at the end of Sept:

100% Dingemans Munich (6L)
1oz spalt FWH
3.5oz spalt 60
1oz spalt dry

mash 148F for 90 minutes
3 hour boil
Wyeast 1007

OG: 1.084
FG: 1.020
IBU: 65

I tried drinking some around christmas, and it was dissappointing, the flavours were all muddled. So I tucked them away for a few more months, until I tried another one yesterday. Wow!!! Now I get it. Malty as hell, but not at all sweet, perfectly balanced.

I obviously bastardized Denny's original, but I sure want to thank him for the inspiration to make this beer. There ain't exactly a lot of recipes floating around for Doppelsticke.

And in my experiences with 1007 (4 batches), it really needs an extended lagering period, but it is so worth it. 1007 is truly unique; to me it has nothing to do with 1056, and it sure ain't a lager yeast either, it's somewhere in between. Now I've got to try the continuously hopped, all-Sterling, Imperial Pils/Kolch/??? that I made with 1007 in October...

In terms of hopping & IBU, anything you'd change?

I'm thinking of tweaking my doppelbock & increasing the bitterness, maybe 50 IBU? (With flavour around 25 minutes & 'aroma' around 10 minutes).

Coincidentally, I was considering doing an 'Imperial' Kolsch as well. I split the batch on the stove top, so I was thinking the first half could be 'IPA'-like & and make something more sessionable with the second... probably all one hop (and probably all pils as well).

[viggo]

I had Marks Doppelsticke not too long ago, it was tucked in my fridge for many months. Pretty nice stuff!

[markaberrant]

I had Marks Doppelsticke not too long ago, it was tucked in my fridge for many months. Pretty nice stuff!

Really? I thought it was a little off, but the cold conditioning probably helped.

[markaberrant]

In terms of hopping & IBU, anything you'd change?

I'm thinking of tweaking my doppelbock & increasing the bitterness, maybe 50 IBU? (With flavour around 25 minutes & 'aroma' around 10 minutes).

Coincidentally, I was considering doing an 'Imperial' Kolsch as well. I split the batch on the stove top, so I was thinking the first half could be 'IPA'-like & and make something more sessionable with the second... probably all one hop (and probably all pils as well).

Spalt is a terrible dry hop, so I'd skip that. I'd switch the recipe to all Mt Hood (I've been sticking with american/american-hybrid hops lately), but if I was going continental I would use Hallertauer. I've also gone away from FWH, so I'd do an addition at 30 minutes instead.

As I already said above, I'm not crazy about my Doppelsticke Alt. It's an ok recipe, but I prefer my basic altbier... bigger is not always better.

If I was doing a doppelbock, I'd keep the IBUs around 30, and ensure the FG is not too high. You want the dry finish to come from attenuation, not hop bitterness.

All of this talk is really making me want to brew some of these beers! Too bad I already have a set brewing schedule for the next couple years... yes, I am that obsessive.

[viggo]

I had Marks Doppelsticke not too long ago, it was tucked in my fridge for many months. Pretty nice stuff!

Really? I thought it was a little off, but the cold conditioning probably helped.

It was great, real nice and malty. I was a little scared to open it because of what you said about, but was very pleasantly surprised. I dug it

[Derek]

Spalt is a terrible dry hop, so I'd skip that. I'd switch the recipe to all Mt Hood (I've been sticking with american/american-hybrid hops lately), but if I was going continental I would use Hallertauer. I've also gone away from FWH, so I'd do an addition at 30 minutes instead.

As I already said above, I'm not crazy about my Doppelsticke Alt. It's an ok recipe, but I prefer my basic altbier... bigger is not always better.

If I was doing a doppelbock, I'd keep the IBUs around 30, and ensure the FG is not too high. You want the dry finish to come from attenuation, not hop bitterness.

All of this talk is really making me want to brew some of these beers! Too bad I already have a set brewing schedule for the next couple years... yes, I am that obsessive.

My Alt that's currently bubbling away is all Mt. Hood (pellets for bittering; homegrown for flavour/aroma) and double decocted, light Munich (OG=1.053).

Gotta use that cake for something... and I think the doppelsticke is my calling.

We've got some hops on order, and looking at their bitterness, I'm thinking a doppelsticke with 3 oz tettnang for bittering, 2oz spalt for flavour & 1 oz Hersbruck for aroma... 57 IBU. (edited because I didn't have the gravity right).

The Uerige doppelsticke is supposedly 75 IBU, but it really didn't seem that strong

I'm still not sure if I'll do any experimental Kolsch... I'll have a fair bit of beer on hand.

[jaymack]

[quote]
So I made this back at the end of Sept:

100% Dingemans Munich (6L)
1oz spalt FWH
3.5oz spalt 60
1oz spalt dry

mash 148F for 90 minutes
3 hour boil
Wyeast 1007

OG: 1.084
FG: 1.020
IBU: 65

quote]

A 3-hour boil? Wow. How much were you brewing?

[markaberrant]

A 3-hour boil? Wow. How much were you brewing?

I brew 5.5 gallon batches. On that system, my boil off was 2 gallons per 90 minutes, so I collected 9.5 gallons.

I brewed a Belgian Dark Strong last spring that was boiled for 4 hours (and 20 minutes if I remember correctly). It's about 11.5% and is starting to taste incredible.

[markaberrant]

I'm still not sure if I'll do any experimental Kolsch... I'll have a fair bit of beer on hand.

I always wanted to do that too, but I really don't think it would taste that great. It's just too delicate of a style, and it really shouldn't have any sweetness (which would be almost impossible to avoid in an imperial version). But what do I know, I brewed an Imperial Witbier last Aug/Sep!

[Derek]

I always wanted to do that too, but I really don't think it would taste that great. It's just too delicate of a style, and it really shouldn't have any sweetness (which would be almost impossible to avoid in an imperial version). But what do I know, I brewed an Imperial Witbier last Aug/Sep!

I was thinking along the lines of the Hopsinjoor, without the fruit & spice from the Belgian yeast.

[Derek]

I think really underpitched the activator... that fermentation was really slow... 1.053 to 1.023 in 10 days (actually 1.5 less because of the lag).

After transferring to secondary (1.020 @ 12 days), it seems to be going a little stronger.

Now the doppelsticke that I dropped on that cake is going crazy! The bung got plugged, the lid had swollen & every once in a while something would shoot through the blow-off tube at the speed of light (okay, maybe the speed of sound).

[markaberrant]

Let us know how the Doppelsticke ferments. In my experience, poor performing yeast does not improve when repitched.

What are your guys' thoughts on using S-05 around 55F for pseudo-lagers/alts/kolschs? Obviously it ain't gonna be the exact same, but I'm thinking a tasty beer could still be made (ex. Rogue Dead Guy). Might have to order a sack of munich next fall and find out.

[Derek]

The doppelsticke blew off a quart, and it's still bubbling away (lots of foam). I'll report back.

I haven't fermented the S05 that cool, but I'm generally not keen on the pseudo lagers.

[JesseMcG]

Let us know how the Doppelsticke ferments. In my experience, poor performing yeast does not improve when repitched.

What are your guys' thoughts on using S-05 around 55F for pseudo-lagers/alts/kolschs? Obviously it ain't gonna be the exact same, but I'm thinking a tasty beer could still be made (ex. Rogue Dead Guy). Might have to order a sack of munich next fall and find out.

I pitched the S-05 at around 60F and over the course of the first few days it dropped below 58-59F and it stalled. Had to warm it back up to get it going again.

[Derek]

Update:

20 days after brewing the original Alt; gravity is down to 1.010 (from 1.053)
8 days after brewing the doppel, it's down to 1.026 (from 1.076)

It's a slow fermentation (slower than the couple of lagers I did in the past), but it's fairly clean (some sulfur, diacetyl & fruity esters, but nothing bad).

I should cross check my thermometer, cause at 55F it's not too active, but a 57F it seems to bubble more regularly.