Dragon's Breath Pale Ale

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » Sat May 22, 2004 3:01 pm

I haven't had this beer in many years. Does anyone know if they're still around? They are, or were, a microbrewery out of Kingston, ON.

Secondly, anyone have any opinions on this beer they'd like to share? It's a interesting one, to be sure.

burgermeister · Post by **burgermeister** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:18 pm

Wasn't Dragon's Breath something Hart Brewing brewed once upon a time but then got into a legal dispute with a rather large Brewer somewhere in the states or somewhere over the use of the word "Dragon" in their beer. I seem to recall there was a lawsuit that eventually resulted in Hart's demise. I also think there was a Kingston Brewing connection somewhere. Was Kingston the Brewpub that originally brewed Dragon's Breath and Hart brewed and bottled it on contract? Something like that.

Can't comment on the beer itself as I never had the pleasure of giving it a try.

DukeofYork = Richard · Sat May 22, 2004 4:21 pm

This beer definitely still exists, but the Kingston Brewing Company (a brewpub, NOT a micro) is the only place to get it. It used to be contract brewed for bottles by Hart in Ottawa, but when the latter went defunct, so too did the bottled version. The present incarnation of the bottled recipe is called St. George, I believe, brewed by... Banks? I believe it, too, is only available on draught.

The Kingston version is one of my favourites, although I'm biased because it's my hometown beer. Nice hoppiness, earthy malt notes, and one of the best draught values around.

Mississauga Matt · Post by **Mississauga Matt** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:24 pm

I'm down to the last bottle of a case that I snagged well after the brewery went under. Luckily the Beer Store still had some in stock. The bitterness has largely dropped out of the beer over time, leaving it maltier than it used to be when fresh.

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:34 pm

Ahh, thanks for the info, guys. The few times I had it was in its bottle form, those dominating 750ml tanks. It used to come back to Toronto from Kingston along with friends returning from business trips in Montreal. I've never had it from draught. Sounds like this might necessitate a quick stopover in Kingston the next time I'm out that way. So am I to take it that it's no longer available in bottles at all?

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:31 am

Hart (now Banks Canada) brewed Dragon's Breath under license from the Kingston Brewing Company. They did both bottle and draught. It was by far Hart's most distinctive product and was at the time one of the hoppiest and bitterest beers brewed in Ontario (IBU 40-45). Hart was sued by Desnoes and Geddes of Jamaica because they believed that the name infringed upon their Dragon Stout name. The court issued a cease and desist order and Hart was supposed to stop brewing, advertising and selling Dragon's Breath. A few months after the ruling, a "spy" was sent to Hart to take a brewery tour. Lo and behold, the Dragon's Breath logos were everywhere. Lorne apparently wore a Dragon's Breath shirt while giving the tour and offered samples of it too! The court took a very dim view of this and this hastened the demise of Hart and the bottle/draught version of Dragon's Breath. The Kingston Brewing Company still has the right to brew it, but only for consumption on their premises. It is available on draught and in real ale form.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Sun May 23, 2004 10:08 pm

PRMason wrote: Hart was sued by Desnoes and Geddes of Jamaica because they believed that the name infringed upon their Dragon Stout name. The court issued a cease and desist order and Hart was supposed to stop brewing, advertising and selling Dragon's Breath.

See now that ticks me right off, that's a classic case of He who can afford lawyers wins. Sit any idiot of the street in front of a pint of Dragon Stout and a pint of Dragons Breath and I think they can tell the difference. Same goes for A-B Budweiser and "Czechvar".

To quote Tommy Lee Jones in MIB "Individuals are smart. People are stupid."

This concludes this pointless rant.

Beer Geek · Post by **Beer Geek** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:05 pm

Isn’t St. George being brewed by Robinson and not Banks? Or did Banks buy Robinson when they bought Hart? Regardless of who brews it, it’s still not as good as the original Dragon's Breath.

burgermeister · Post by **burgermeister** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:30 pm

Beer Geek wrote:Isn’t St. George being brewed by Robinson and not Banks? Or did Banks buy Robinson when they bought Hart? Regardless of who brews it, it’s still not as good as the original Dragon's Breath.

Robinson and Hart had a joint marketing agreement in place for a while. That died when Hart died. Banks didn't buy Robinson but they have been sold/bought by some new folks recently. They are the guys that brew St. George. I do believe the new owners lurk around here from time to time so if you've got any "constructive input" for them......

I tasted a St George a couple months back. My immediate impression was - pretty hoppy nose, fair bit of bitterness, and absolutely nothing else. Very poorly balanced, thin tasting ale. Not something I'd run out and buy.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:04 pm

I agree with Burgermeister. Constructive criticism is the only way to influence what we do. By saying "it sucks", or even just "not very good" you don't give us any real input. Tell us what you believe is lacking and perhaps we can change things. I believe most Ontario micros lurk here from time to time. especially when a new product is being lauched. This is your chance to tell them what you want.
P.S. Free beer suggestions won't work.

[/i]

burgermeister · Post by **burgermeister** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:27 pm

PRMason wrote:I agree with Burgermeister. [/i]

PR, can you have a talk with my wife. Don't think she's agreed with me on anything in 20 some years.

If feels so good to be validated.

JWalter · Post by **JWalter** » Tue May 25, 2004 10:27 pm

Dragon's Breath in bottles was my favorite Ontario Micro while it was being brewed, I was very upset when it went away! I also agree with the other posts that St. George's Ale (unfortunately) is a poor substitute. I'm hoping that the new Robinson's owners start to brew something tasty as I live in Mississauga and would love to have something to cheer about... At the moment the latest beer I'm championing is Cameron's Auburn Ale, "I'm Loving' It!"

Josh Oakes · Post by **Josh Oakes** » Wed May 26, 2004 10:44 am

PRMason wrote:Hart (now Banks Canada) brewed Dragon's Breath under license from the Kingston Brewing Company. They did both bottle and draught. It was by far Hart's most distinctive product and was at the time one of the hoppiest and bitterest beers brewed in Ontario (IBU 40-45). Hart was sued by Desnoes and Geddes of Jamaica because they believed that the name infringed upon their Dragon Stout name. The court issued a cease and desist order and Hart was supposed to stop brewing, advertising and selling Dragon's Breath. A few months after the ruling, a "spy" was sent to Hart to take a brewery tour. Lo and behold, the Dragon's Breath logos were everywhere. Lorne apparently wore a Dragon's Breath shirt while giving the tour and offered samples of it too! The court took a very dim view of this and this hastened the demise of Hart and the bottle/draught version of Dragon's Breath. The Kingston Brewing Company still has the right to brew it, but only for consumption on their premises. It is available on draught and in real ale form.

This was nothing but a means to an end, though. D&G wanted to take out Banks. That's who they're competing with, and Banks was brewing at Hart and selling for less at the Beer Store than D&G could do with Red Stripe. If it were really about Dragon's Breath, D&G would also have taken out the Kingston Brewing Company.

So they knocked out Hart which took Banks out of the market for about a year, and they haven't been anywhere near the same since Banks Canada arrived on the scene. I'll wager that Red Stripe has never looked back.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Thu May 27, 2004 10:23 am

Josh Oakes wrote: This was nothing but a means to an end, though. D&G wanted to take out Banks. That's who they're competing with, and Banks was brewing at Hart and selling for less at the Beer Store than D&G could do with Red Stripe. If it were really about Dragon's Breath, D&G would also have taken out the Kingston Brewing Company.

On the one hand that's less stupid than the copyright farce, but is a lot more devious. So our choices are stupid or evil huh? Hmmmm....

JWalter · Post by **JWalter** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:16 am

FYI - I was out in Kingston a few weeks ago, popped by the Brewpub again, BTW, if you haven't been and you're in or driving by Kingston on the 401, you really HAVE to go!

Had a pint of the Dragon's Breath Pale Ale (FYI: They also have a Dragon's Breath Real Ale, which is not just just a Real Ale version of the Pale, but actually a totally different beer), and it was AWESOME! Delicious flavor, really nice and hoppy, god I've missed that beer. Thankfully we now have some other great Ontario Pale Ales, and IPA's now (Black Oak, Mill St, Niagara Falls, St. Major's), but it would be great if someone could resurrect the Dragon's Breath in Bottles...