Ottawa Citizen opinion: Have a state-controlled cold one

[sstackho]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/columnists ... story.html

Excerpt:

A number of people are incensed that the Tory leader would waste time on this allegedly trivial [buck-a-beer] issue when so many more serious things are wrong with government in Ontario. I'm incensed that he didn't denounce the whole concept of government minimum prices for beer.

For starters, I'm baffled by the notion that beer is trivial. Benjamin Franklin said, "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." No one ever said that about politics, did they? Beer is real. Beer is actual. People drink beer when they're having fun, relaxing with friends, reading a book, watching the sunset or, in extreme strange cases, writing a newspaper column. It is part of the stuff of life and gloriously good in a normal healthy way. That's why it is profoundly wrong that the government should reach for our beer glasses.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Have+state ... z1DqVKDH9Z

[Bytowner]

1) I have yet to read an articcle by Robson that doesn't make me want to down an entire 24, so a point there for minimum prices.

2) He can get as offended as he wants, it won't change the fact that, from a health and safety perspective, minimum alcohol prices are an effective policy. It's well established by dozens of economics, sociology, and policy studies, especially in the case of young drinkers.

3) I do wish neo-liberals would stop telling people what it means to be a Tory, for all his pseudo-intellectual crap, he has no clue.

Given the problems with Ontario's system, problems that frustrate people's freedom of choice, I wish the opposition could focus on something that actually does matter.

[mintjellie]

So since some people have a drinking problem, the logical response is to pre-emptively punish everyone who drinks alcohol regardless of whether or not they have a problem. Correct?

How about making it easier for parents to introduce their children to responsible public drinking by allowing teenagers to a have a drink while eating in a restaurant under their parents supervision?

Why is it that a country like Greece, with a higher consumption of alcohol per capita and a lower drinking age then Canada, has a lower rate of alcohol related deaths? Maybe there's something about our laws concerning alcohol that actually encourages immature or unhealthy behaviours.

[mintjellie]

At the same time, there are also countries with lower rates of consumption and lower drinking ages that also show higher rates of alcohol related deaths.

It really goes to show that a good drinking culture does a better job of encouraging responsible use than any set of laws drafted by a government can.

[Bytowner]

I know of no country that has simply created a better drinking culture out of thin air. Greece has a drinking culture going back thousands of years. A price floor on alcohol is an acknowledged practical policy to reduce alcohol related crime and health issues. I'm not sure to what degree preventing these things (by no means problems for alcoholics alone) is "punishment" for the rest us.

[SteelbackGuy]

1) I have yet to read an articcle by Robson that doesn't make me want to down an entire 24, so a point there for minimum prices.

2) He can get as offended as he wants, it won't change the fact that, from a health and safety perspective, minimum alcohol prices are an effective policy. It's well established by dozens of economics, sociology, and policy studies, especially in the case of young drinkers.

3) I do wish neo-liberals would stop telling people what it means to be a Tory, for all his pseudo-intellectual crap, he has no clue.

Given the problems with Ontario's system, problems that frustrate people's freedom of choice, I wish the opposition could focus on something that actually does matter.

This.

[Belgian]

I'm not sure to what degree preventing these things (by no means problems for alcoholics alone) is "punishment" for the rest us.

Yeah it's partly alarmism over measures of control that seem to spread over Ontarian culture like an oil slick, justified or not - that's fearful perception.

But it's also partly a reaction to how some things are stupidly expensive enough in Ontario. That 'floor' price for retail beer gets passed along two-fold in bars, then we're clobbererd with more tax-on-tax then a tip; People in this case react not just from alarmism but from a 'screw all you Ontario revenue collectors' emotion as well.

If say if bars were allowed wholesale buying costs and not forced to set high prices, then all price regulations would seem more justified and less of a big free-for-all money-grab. 2¢

[Bytowner]

But it's also partly a reaction to how some things are stupidly expensive enough in Ontario. That 'floor' price for retail beer gets passed along two-fold in bars, then we're clobbererd with more tax-on-tax then a tip; People in this case react not just from alarmism but from a 'screw all you Ontario revenue collectors' emotion as well.

If say if bars were allowed wholesale buying costs and not forced to set high prices, then all price regulations would seem more justified and less of a big free-for-all money-grab. 2¢

Fair enough, we certainly do have to bend over at the tap and it's gotten noticeably worse in the past half decade or so in major cities, though as you say, that has very little to do with the actual price floor.

[Belgian]

Fair enough, we certainly do have to bend over at the tap and it's gotten noticeably worse in the past half decade or so in major cities, though as you say, that has very little to do with the actual price floor.

Good articles on the web - ways we are wasting several hundred dollars a month. These include eating out, buying drinks in bars, by-the-cup coffee, parking tickets and alll poorly-managed fees - stuff we always just pay for and not think about it.

If that's what it comes to, avoiding expensive bars (or going as often) is just 'good business' for you. You could easily knock a few or possibly a number of years off a mortgage by being a more selective purchaser (debt interest is the 'hidden cost' of all our free spending.)

And I don't mean never go have fun!

[sprague11]

Good articles on the web - ways we are wasting several hundred dollars a month. These include eating out, buying drinks in bars, by-the-cup coffee, parking tickets and alll poorly-managed fees - stuff we always just pay for and not think about it.

If that's what it comes to, avoiding expensive bars (or going as often) is just 'good business' for you. You could easily knock a few or possibly a number of years off a mortgage by being a more selective purchaser (debt interest is the 'hidden cost' of all our free spending.)

And I don't mean never go have fun!

Bookmarked this thread next time the wife to be thinks we need new furniture.

[mintjellie]

I know of no country that has simply created a better drinking culture out of thin air. Greece has a drinking culture going back thousands of years. A price floor on alcohol is an acknowledged practical policy to reduce alcohol related crime and health issues. I'm not sure to what degree preventing these things (by no means problems for alcoholics alone) is "punishment" for the rest us.

And I don't know of any country that has created a better drinking culture by treating it's citizens like small children who need to be protected from demon liquor.

[Belgian]

Good articles on the web ....... You could easily knock a few or possibly a number of years off a mortgage by being a more selective purchaser (debt interest is the 'hidden cost' of all our free spending.)

And I don't mean never go have fun!

Bookmarked this thread next time the wife to be thinks we need new furniture.

Count yourself lucky if you don't have a few growing daughters as well, spending you into your bank's eternal servitude. "I want it now" seems to be the prevailing logic.

Let me know what you want for last year's furniture. Half kidding about that. I want to find some good inexpensive stuff for the house. Anyone with ideas can email me a link rather than carry on this tangent here.

[icemachine]

Count yourself lucky if you don't have a few growing daughters as well, spending you into your bank's eternal servitude. "I want it now" seems to be the prevailing logic.

Let me know what you want for last year's furniture. Half kidding about that. I want to find some good inexpensive stuff for the house. Anyone with ideas can email me a link rather than carry on this tangent here.

Try Quebec Costco [/img]