Privatization...

[Derek]

Here's a good article on what's going down in BC:
http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/05/28/Exel_Liquor_Bid/

It's Corporatism, the short-sighted politicians just want to balance their budget, and it's not in the best interest of the public.

Our private stores are great, but I REALLY don't want a corporation controlling our distribution.

[Derek]

Some of the comments are interesting as well... Alberta isn't the shining example that people tend to think:

"Jim Dinning, former Progressive Conservative leader candidate in Alberta is listed as Chairman of Liquor Barn and Liquor Depot on the company's website. Furthermore, since 2006, LIQUOR STORES GP INC (the parent company of Liquor Barn and Liquor Depot) has made more than $130,000 in contributions to the BC Liberal Party. Make what you will of these facts. For myself, I smell something rotten."

Here's another good comment (though I'd call it Corporatism)...

"...Deutsche Post swallowed Exel...Deutsche Post DHL, which last year reported $65 billion revenue...the B.C. government projected $43.1 billion revenue this year..."

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power."

-President Franklin Roosevelt, in an April 29, 1938 message to Congress.

[Derek]

Nice to see some mainstream press, but they should've been tougher on the Liberals:
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Br ... story.html

[ErkLR]

People don't always (ever) get the kind of privatization they imagined.

[JeffPorter]

People don't always (ever) get the kind of privatization they imagined.

+1

Nicely summed up!

[sprague11]

People don't always (ever) get the kind of privatization they imagined.

sometimes the devil you know...

[atomeyes]

People don't always (ever) get the kind of privatization they imagined.

sometimes the devil you know...

...prevents you from getting Cantillon.

[saints_gambit]

People don't always (ever) get the kind of privatization they imagined.

sometimes the devil you know...

...prevents you from getting Cantillon.

You're right. What's 1.6 Billion dollars in profit and a massively entrenched bureaucracy of unionized employment compared to a bottle of expensive Kriek.

[mintjellie]

sometimes the devil you know...

...prevents you from getting Cantillon.

You're right. What's 1.6 Billion dollars in profit and a massively entrenched bureaucracy of unionized employment compared to consumer choice and opportunities for small business entrepreneurs.

[sprague11]

Again, I don't think you're going to see small stores selling Founders, Stone and Bell's in Ontario. Quebec's model is likely the best we'll get - Ontario Craft Beer and the big macros in convenience stores and supermarkets.

[saints_gambit]

Again, I don't think you're going to see small stores selling Founders, Stone and Bell's in Ontario. Quebec's model is likely the best we'll get - Ontario Craft Beer and the big macros in convenience stores and supermarkets.

Plus, even if there's the ability to sell beer outside the LCBO, they might well retain the right to approve incoming products. Just because the ability to privatize sales exists, the regulatory body wouldn't necessarily change.

And think of the lag time on the changeover. Privatization isn't a magical transformation that happens overnight. You might eventually get a very good selection of a number of different products, but there's no guarantee that someone will put one near your house.

[mintjellie]

Again, I don't think you're going to see small stores selling Founders, Stone and Bell's in Ontario. Quebec's model is likely the best we'll get - Ontario Craft Beer and the big macros in convenience stores and supermarkets.

But in larger cities like Toronto, or even in smaller cities like London that have already shown they can support a few good beer bars, isn't it reasonable to expect that at least a few specialty shops focusing on good beer will open up?

Do you think that if there is a demand for a specialty product, that absolutely no one in the entire province will take chance on starting a business to meet that demand?

[JeffPorter]

Do you think that if there is a demand for a specialty product, that absolutely no one in the entire province will take chance on starting a business to meet that demand?

No, of course not. But having someone willing to open a business is one thing - getting the breweries to supply you, and dealing with a regulatory body, be it the saq or the lcbo, that may or may not let the beer in the province in the first place is something else.

The point's been made, but if you're in Montreal, and feel like a St. Bernies 12, you're not going to go to a depaneur. You're going to the SAQ.

I may be speaking out of turn, but I think most of us who seem to be "LCBO defenders" don't believe that there can't be improvements or even some room for privatization of some form. Rather, I think we just don't believe that an outright sell off would result in more choice at the cash register.

[mintjellie]

And if you want a St Bernies 12 in Edmonton, you'll go to Sherbrooke.

[atomeyes]

sometimes the devil you know...

...prevents you from getting Cantillon.

You're right. What's 1.6 Billion dollars in profit and a massively entrenched bureaucracy of unionized employment compared to a bottle of expensive Kriek.

of course, if you wanted to, you would mention the increase in government revenue that came from Alberta's privatization. or you can talk about zero lack of accountability between LCBO's expenses and their profitability (i.e. their useless-yet-frequent radio ads, their fancy store locations and reno costs).

if only i knew if our comment about the unionized employment was supposed to be a pro or con towards any privatization movement.

Again, I don't think you're going to see small stores selling Founders, Stone and Bell's in Ontario. Quebec's model is likely the best we'll get - Ontario Craft Beer and the big macros in convenience stores and supermarkets.

Plus, even if there's the ability to sell beer outside the LCBO, they might well retain the right to approve incoming products. Just because the ability to privatize sales exists, the regulatory body wouldn't necessarily change.

And think of the lag time on the changeover. Privatization isn't a magical transformation that happens overnight. You might eventually get a very good selection of a number of different products, but there's no guarantee that someone will put one near your house.

worst-case scenario?

things remain the same. Ontario's craft breweries are allowed to open their version of the Beer Store. hell, even that would be a win.

likely scenario? Ontario govt sells off the LCBO because they're so bloody cash strapped and have a massive debt. there's a bidding war for current locations but there's also room for new licensees to apply. current LCBO locations actually become worse because they're bought by mega-conglomerates that only want to push their product. selection of wine and beer becomes bad. but...new stores open up and fill that demand. their sales skyrocket because lord knows that Rosedale's population needs a place to buy whatever Beppi suggests. and then add beer into that mix.

the end!