A comparison between Canada and Sweden, and a few questions.

[Winged]

Hey!
I have been lurking the Bar Towel forum on and off, and Cass was kind enough to set me up with an account, even though registrations are closed atm.

I live in Sweden, but my intention is to move to Ontario within a year or so. Currently I spend some time a cpl of times/year in the GTA, and that is the reason I am looking for Canadian beer info.

I am wondering about the beer situation in Canada in general, and in Ontario in particular.

Apart from what is available from the LCBO (and the Beer Store), what is available from the breweries themselves through shops on their premises, and what is available through traveling across the border (either to QC or to the States), there is no other way to acquire beer? All mentioned methods together provides a very good selection, so it's not like I am really disappointed, but the situation here in Sweden is somewhat different. We do have something that is kinda similar to the LCBO called Systembolaget. A nation wide, government controlled "chain" of stores that do carry a very good range of beer from all over the world. Added to that, it is possible to order beer through Systembolaget, both from Swedish microbreweries (not from all, but from quite many) and from wholesale distributors who usually sell imported beer to pubs - beers that isn't part of Systembolaget's "normal" range. When doing these kind of special orders, it sometimes is a requirement to buy a full box, but there really is quite a lot you can buy as single bottles. The good thing is that there are no extra costs involved in ordering through Systembolaget. Only if you order something that isn't carried by a Swedish distributor, and then it becomes too expensive (I think).

This is what beer is currently available through Systembolaget:
https://www.systembolaget.se/Sok-dryck/ ... ion=search
([BS] means it's part of a range that has to be ordered, and "kolli" means you will have to buy a full box)

I saw smth about private ordering in this forum, but I really didn't get what that is all about or how it is being done. Is that being done through the LCBO?

What is really awesome here in Sweden, is that I can order beer through the mail, from many shops throughout Europe. Many breweries sell their beer this way (De Molen, Mikkeller & Brewdog all have their own webshops), and while it legally is a "grey area" in Sweden to buy beer this way, it works. I've had no trouble with customs - no interaction/intervention at all - which is thanks to the open trade within the European Union (although some ppl have had bad luck with that - both having to pay customs + high fees, or even have had beer and liquor confiscated if they ordered more than what normally could be assumed to be for "own use").

Apart from breweries, there are beer stores who sell online to most countries.

Here are some of the shops that deliver to Sweden:

http://www.bier-deluxe.com/
http://www.bierkompass.de/Home_English.html
http://www.bieresgourmet.be/catalog/
http://www.biere-revolution.com/
http://www.alesbymail.co.uk/
http://www.beergium.com/en/

Shipping varies, but I have paid around €20 (~ $28 CAD) for a mixed box of 24 bottles. Just over $1 extra per bottle isn't that bad

From what I heard shopping like this, through mail order, is impossible in Canada? I think Brewdog used to deliver to Canada, but I think they stated they had to stop due to too much trouble with Can customs.

OK, I will end my rant here. It wasn't as much a lot of questions as it was a comparison of what I have now, to what I will get when moving to Canada. I am sure I will do just fine. I have tried quite a lot of Canadian craft beer, and I am glad to find that the average standard has risen remarkably since 2009, which was the first time I was there. Also been across the border (just a daytrip to US Niagara Falls) to get some beer, as well at a trip to Montreal to stock up on some of the QC stuff.

Any input appreciated!

cheers,
Winged

[Craig]

Private orders exist in Ontario, but they're quite different from what you describe in Sweden. The way it works here is all orders do indeed run through the LCBO, but you can only order things the LCBO has approved through their various levels of bureaucracy. As a result, you can't simply look up a brewer you like and order their beer, you have to find an Ontario importer who is willing to deal with individuals, then look over the list of stuff they have, then pick something you want. To put it another way, the importers decide what to bring in and clear it through the LCBO, then they have to find buyers for all the stock they want. As an individual, there's really no way to get the specific beer you want. Also, no deliveries. You pick stuff up at the LCBO warehouse or if you're lucky they ship it to your local outlet. Oh, and you're almost for sure going to be required to get a full case. The upside is because of the limited supply, private orders often get picked up on by other beer geeks (this forum is a good spot to find people) who will split cases as they see fit.

Local brewers will only sell the stuff that is made on site in their outlets. For most of them, supply isn't consistent either, so you're better off calling ahead and seeing what's in at the moment.

Quebec/Buffalo are good ways to get your hands on stuff the LCBO doesn't carry. If you really want something specific, private orders are a little more reasonable in Quebec through the SAQ, so you could look into making your order there and driving down to pick it up. The logistics around that can be tricky, but it can definitely be done.

Buffalo is in the States, so you can pretty much buy whatever you want if you can find it and you have the money.

[Winged]

Thank you very much for straightening a few things out, Craig!

To clarify, the "order only" range within Systembolaget, is a bit more complicated than what it may seem from my brief description.

Also, the rules changed Sept 1st - to the worse for many breweries - but each craft brewery can sell their stuff off the shelves in the three closest SB-stores, with an option to have it shipped nationwide. Part of the new system is that the brewery now will have to pay for having their stuff shipped to a central hub that supply all stores. Many of the smaller breweries have either completely stopped selling stuff through SB, or limit their sales to just the "closest 3 stores"-system.

Apart from what is listed available for order, we have an option called "private orders" too. This is basically whatever the importers/distributers have to offer for the time being, and you will have to find out yourself what is available, make a list and send it through SB to that particular importer, and they get back to SB, who gets back to you with a price suggestion. Some of the importers have very good listings online of what they carry, and the price is what it would have been if SB would have carried it (no additional fees).

Mind you the alcohol tax is quite high here. For beer it is SKR 1.78 ~27¢ / liter FOR EACH ABV%
That means 650ml beer at ABV 10% has a tax of $1.75
(.27 x 10 x .65)

Anyways, ordering through SB is really neat. As long as it is in their ordering range, you can register an account online, put whatever you want in a webstore cart and choose which store you wanna pick up the order at. When your stuff has arrived you'll get a text message (SMS) telling you the order is ready to be picked up

I remember looking into some of the regulations for importing alcohol in Ontario, and it seemed to be rather difficult. I am not talking about importing as an individual, but I was rather investigating the possibilities to start a business based on this, but I'm really not a business person, but a beer geek. It would be awesome to work with your passion though - and that is more than just a backdoor to getting good beers for myself. I tend to buy more than I drink. Finding it is half the fun

Thanks for the suggestion of doing orders through SAQ. I didn't know about this option, and it may be well worth looking into

cheers,
Winged