Privatization...

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 am

This is an interesting read about the SAQ and grocery store wine.

shows that backwards legislation doesn't just exist in Ontario.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Win ... story.html

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:00 am

One thing I don't get:

We all seem to agree that these outdated laws are residual "scars" from Prohibition - why is that the U.S. seemed to "recover" from prohibition much better that Canadian jurisdiction?

Was it just the earlier and bigger proliferation of "craft" brewing and wine making?

sprague11 · Post by **sprague11** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:05 am

Even if the stores go private or whatever, My guess is the LCBO labs will continue to run and keep us "socialy responsible"

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:17 pm

There are still dry municipalities in the US, so they haven't totally recovered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17291978

The US 3-tier system of distribution isn't great either, but at least their taxes are low enough that it's still affordable.
http://www.fermentarium.com/industry/ho ... tem-works/
http://www.winelaw.ca/cms/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=19

Torontoblue · Post by **Torontoblue** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:04 pm

mintjellie wrote:And if you want a St Bernies 12 in Edmonton, you'll go to Sherbrooke.

Along with Keg 'n Cork, Devines, Vines of Riverbend, Little Guy Liquor.

But as I've mentioned before, we may have a great number of class beers in Edmonton and it continues to grow, but the number of stores stocking a good to great selection in Edmonton isn't that great, maybe count them on 2 hands with a few fingers left. The rest, and there's a hell of a lot of 'em, just sell the big guys stuff, cheap wine & cheap liquor, with a tiny tiny nod to micro beer.

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:14 pm

Derek wrote:There are still dry municipalities in the US, so they haven't totally recovered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17291978

Interesting map - I like that there's "no data" for Georgia!

Kel Varnsen · Post by **Kel Varnsen** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:18 pm

JeffPorter wrote:One thing I don't get:

We all seem to agree that these outdated laws are residual "scars" from Prohibition - why is that the U.S. seemed to "recover" from prohibition much better that Canadian jurisdiction?

Was it just the earlier and bigger proliferation of "craft" brewing and wine making?

I think it is a bit simpler than that. I mean prohibition in the US ended in the 1930's. Since then pretty much every industry in the US has taken off like crazy since then compared to Canada. And I think it is just the case of the United States being a much bigger economy. I mean pretty much every industry in the US is bigger than the same in Canada for the same reason. It is just that there is more money to be made so things take off faster.

NRman · Post by **NRman** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:38 pm

Kel Varnsen wrote: I mean pretty much every industry in the US is bigger than the same in Canada.

about 10x bigger

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:31 am

Torontoblue wrote:
mintjellie wrote:And if you want a St Bernies 12 in Edmonton, you'll go to Sherbrooke.
Along with Keg 'n Cork, Devines, Vines of Riverbend, Little Guy Liquor.

But as I've mentioned before, we may have a great number of class beers in Edmonton and it continues to grow, but the number of stores stocking a good to great selection in Edmonton isn't that great, maybe count them on 2 hands with a few fingers left. The rest, and there's a hell of a lot of 'em, just sell the big guys stuff, cheap wine & cheap liquor, with a tiny tiny nod to micro beer.

Ohhhh but private is automatically so much better Sid! Just ask the Ontarians on this forum! They`re all knowing!

Torontoblue · Post by **Torontoblue** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:40 am

Oh Len, it does give me a giggle that Ontarian's think this. They'll scream blue murder the minute it happens; hunting around even more for their favourite brew and prices suddenly increased by $1 to $3 over what the Communist LCBO charged. And you still won't get Cantillon, well you will but it'll be $30.00+ a bottle!!!

There are pro's & con's with both systems, but looking at what is coming to the LCBO soon is encouraging, thanks to the agents who are finally stepping up.

mintjellie · Post by **mintjellie** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:33 am

Torontoblue wrote:Oh Len, it does give me a giggle that Ontarian's think this. They'll scream blue murder the minute it happens; hunting around even more for their favourite brew and prices suddenly increased by $1 to $3 over what the Communist LCBO charged. And you still won't get Cantillon, well you will but it'll be $30.00+ a bottle!!!

There are pro's & con's with both systems, but looking at what is coming to the LCBO soon is encouraging, thanks to the agents who are finally stepping up.

I love it when you guys draw out that old straw man. You think I don't know that most stores would sell shit? Guess what - I don't give a fuck if 98% of the stores would sell nothing but CLIT and Bud Light Lime. Because there would still be stores that sold better beer as well. Stores that even specialize it, instead of stocking 80+ brands of shitty euro lager and throwing 9 or 10 lousy bones to the craft drinkers four times a year.

I want choice. I want better selection. I don't give a rats ass if only 5 stores in the whole province would provide that selection. The best case scenario would be one in which those handful of specialty stores would be allowed to exist, relatively free from interference in terms of what products they can order, and in which mail/internet sales were legalized and regulated to make things available to someone living in Moose Factory.

I also don't give a shit if the Cantilion would be thirty dollars either. I'd rather have it be available in the first place, without it being shipped over and destroyed at the agents or brewers cost.

Ale's What Cures Ya · Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:55 am

I don't understand why we're supposed to care if people living in northern Ontario have access to great beer. The fact is the LCBO hinders the enjoyment of my life, and that's what I care about.

I couldn't care less if the people that lived in Northern Ontario, or outside the GTA (this includes me) had easy access to craft beer in a system that allowed private sales. Fuck 'em.

If there were only three stores in the entire province that stocked a world class selection of product the odds are one of them would be within driving distance of my residence and that would mean it would get 99% of my business, and I'm sure a majority of craft beer drinkers would feel the same way. We'll enjoy shopping at the small, world class stores while the rest of the province can enjoy going to the 7-11 and buying all the swill they want. Which in turn would make the government happy, because it would maintain their revenue streams.

The biggest issue with allowing an open system is the aforementioned entrenched unionized labour, which would certainly be a sticky wicket. I advocate firing them all and letting them find out what their "skills" are actually worth in the open job market (newsflash, it's minimum wage) but of course the powers that be would never make a decision like that.

How did provinces like Alberta deal with the public liquor workforce?

sprague11 · Post by **sprague11** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:29 pm

*I* Care that there's good beer in Northern Ontario as I have many family members up there and travel up there constantly. I'm sure the people that bought up Peche Mortel in Thunder Bay like Tween girls scooping up Beiber concert tickets and those that are buying Red Racer by the armload in the Soo agree with me.

*I* Like the idea of going to Sault Ste Marie, North Bay, Timmins, Thunder Bay or even Kenora and being able to get a good craft lager or Ale, and not have to drink Rum and Coke because the stores are stocked with shit.

I dare say that without the LCBO Anything north of Sudbury would hard pressed to get anything decent.

Ale's What Cures Ya · Post by **Ale's What Cures Ya** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:05 pm

sprague11 wrote:*I* Care that there's good beer in Northern Ontario as I have many family members up there and travel up there constantly. I'm sure the people that bought up Peche Mortel in Thunder Bay like Tween girls scooping up Beiber concert tickets and those that are buying Red Racer by the armload in the Soo agree with me.

*I* Like the idea of going to Sault Ste Marie, North Bay, Timmins, Thunder Bay or even Kenora and being able to get a good craft lager or Ale, and not have to drink Rum and Coke because the stores are stocked with shit.

I dare say that without the LCBO Anything north of Sudbury would hard pressed to get anything decent.

Why not just bring something along when you visit your family in the north?

And I most certainly agree with you that the north would be a beer wasteland in a private system, but that doesn't particularly bother me as it doesn't hurt me one bit.

sprague11 · Post by **sprague11** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:13 pm

Not always do-able - When I go up north I'm there for at least a week at a time. Usually with boxes of other stuff, camping equipment, Christmas presents, luggage, etc. depending on the time of year. If my wife's family travels with me that severly limits my amount of trunk space.

I guess the difference between us is I'm nowhere near as selfish or short-sighted as you. In jest of course