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sprague11 wrote:Not always do-able - When I go up north I'm there for at least a week at a time. Usually with boxes of other stuff, camping equipment, Christmas presents, luggage, etc. depending on the time of year. If my wife's family travels with me that severly limits my amount of trunk space.
I guess the difference between us is I'm nowhere near as selfish or short-sighted as you. In jest of course
I suppose that would make a difference in how much beer you could bring.
And while I disagree with short-sighted, I'll definitely give you selfish.
sprague11 wrote:*I* Care that there's good beer in Northern Ontario as I have many family members up there and travel up there constantly. I'm sure the people that bought up Peche Mortel in Thunder Bay like Tween girls scooping up Beiber concert tickets and those that are buying Red Racer by the armload in the Soo agree with me.
*I* Like the idea of going to Sault Ste Marie, North Bay, Timmins, Thunder Bay or even Kenora and being able to get a good craft lager or Ale, and not have to drink Rum and Coke because the stores are stocked with shit.
I dare say that without the LCBO Anything north of Sudbury would hard pressed to get anything decent.
Those people who buy up Peche Mortel by the boatload will still exist if the LCBO were dismantled, and if there were enough of them in those places you would mention, someone would sell good beer to them. If a market for something exists, then someone will sell it.
Also, wouldn't allowing retailers to ship beer within the province solve the problem of access in small communities anyways? Just an idea.
That said, I understand theres a beer bar up in Sudbury that buys a lot of stock when the LCBO brings new seasonals - bars like that would still be able to buy craft and good imports from whatever wholesale system would exist in a post-LCBO world. Another hypothetical option is to allow bar owners to sell product for off-licence consumption.
Some fair points. Its rare that i see anyone buying something thatd not laker or coors up north. Id hope that if the bo were dismantled someone would make an attempt to carry these products but the opposite could always happen.
Of course I would be happy to see them dismantle social responsibility. To hell with those guys
Considering I've seen New Belgium and Deschutes in gas stations in middle-of-nowhere Oregon, I'm inclined to say that those who think a private system will not have widespread good beer are full of shit.
cmadd wrote:Considering I've seen New Belgium and Deschutes in gas stations in middle-of-nowhere Oregon, I'm inclined to say that those who think a private system will not have widespread good beer are full of shit.
It's possible, but that's a different market. Craft beer is still just a drop in the bucket in Ontario.
I think both those breweries are in the top 10 of US producers as well. Presumably they have distributors that are ACTUALLY selling their product.
Ontario already has The Beer Store alternative to the government monopoly that's really well established. I don't think any company is big enough to really compete with that. It would be nice to see a few premium/boutique private stores though... something like BC's model.
cmadd wrote:Considering I've seen New Belgium and Deschutes in gas stations in middle-of-nowhere Oregon, I'm inclined to say that those who think a private system will not have widespread good beer are full of shit.
Based on some half-assed googling and conversions: New Belgium annual production for 2007 was 473000 barrels, or 555000 hectoliters. Deschutes is in the neighbourhood of 186000 barrels, or 219,000 hectolitres.
By way of comparison Wikipedia lists Steamwhistles annual production at 32000 hectolitres. I suspect that number for Steamwhistle has gone up since then but you get the idea.
New Belgium is not a small brewery anymore, and as others have noted, its not the same kind of market. That said, Oregon is arguably not really comparable to ANY other market.
We just watched Rise of the Planet of the Apes and there was a Deschutes product placement... I think they may be a little more mainstream than we give them credit for!
In my opinion privatization works well if you have good healthy competition. If only a couple of large companies control a market, it helps having the government involved to help the smaller players.
At this point I would be concerned if the LCBO disappeared and it was left up to private companies to fill the void, as much as I would like to see that happen.
What would be nice, is if the "Beer Boutique" was just that - if someone at Brewers Retail just snapped and said, "Fuck it! I'm bringing in some Rochforte, Pliny, and we're going to find someone to brew Thomas Hardy again!"
"What can you say about Pabst Blue Ribbon that Dennis Hopper hasn’t screamed in the middle of an ether binge?" - Jordan St. John
Torontoblue wrote:Oh Len, it does give me a giggle that Ontarian's think this. They'll scream blue murder the minute it happens; hunting around even more for their favourite brew and prices suddenly increased by $1 to $3 over what the Communist LCBO charged. And you still won't get Cantillon, well you will but it'll be $30.00+ a bottle!!!
There are pro's & con's with both systems, but looking at what is coming to the LCBO soon is encouraging, thanks to the agents who are finally stepping up.
I agree with what you say Sid, but any reference to communism is beating a dead horse and seems silly to me.
That said, I am a communist and I want to line up to get my weekly bread so perhaps I am biased.
If you`re reading this, there`s a 15% chance you`ve got a significant drinking problem. Get it fixed, get recovered!
reading some of the posts here is enough to make me laugh on my lunch.
"$30 Cantillon bottles!" you say? Yep. Bought them for $18 or $20 at Willow Park in Calgary. they were on sale. same place i bought my Pannepot. on sale. but hey, at least Alberta can get the Cantillons and Westy 12s of the world.
"Think about the poor beer drinkers in Northern Ontario!" you cry out? If food and drink selection meant that much to them, then either a) they wouldn't be living in Northern Ontario, and b) someone smart enough would open a liquor store to meet that demand.
"only a handful of boutique stores would open up." a drop of spit in the ocean is still a drop of spit. I drive 30 min to Whitby for BBQ and 25 min to Grand Electric for tacos. I'd be happy to drive across the city to load up on New Belgium or Stone or Half Pints.
I'm imagining a Shoppers Drug Mart scenario. you know: most people are too dumb to find a pharmacy other than Shoppers Drug Mart, so they go there because they know the name and there's 1 on every corner. You open things up and people will still flood to the LCBO. they'll be buying their Jackson Triggs magnums to drink and will be excited when the Olympic cans of Bud come out. and good for them. fucking mouthbreathers.
If privitization were to open up things I wonder how it would effect the breweries themselves, specifically relating to production and overhead costs. I mean from what I know the nice thing about the LCBO is that it is province wide and there is a central office you go to to submit your new products. If/when they accept you are pretty much in and can be in LCBO stores across the province. If you get rid of that and sell beer in private stores, rather than convincing the LCBO to carry your product. To get the same kind of coverage you have to convince 100's or 1000's of store owners/managers to carry your product. That means more sales reps hustling and trying to get products out there. And with more sales reps means more money paid to employees and potentially less money to devote to actually making beer. I am not saying one systems is automatically better or worse, just wondering how it would effect things if you need 3 times as many employees to be in just the same amount of stores.
atomeyes wrote:reading some of the posts here is enough to make me laugh on my lunch.
"$30 Cantillon bottles!" you say? Yep. Bought them for $18 or $20 at Willow Park in Calgary. they were on sale. same place i bought my Pannepot. on sale. but hey, at least Alberta can get the Cantillons and Westy 12s of the world.
And your point is? You bought them in the sale..........even in the wonderful free market that is Alberta, Cantillon sits on the shelf for months & months gathering dust due to the relatively high price of $30+; hence Willow Park took the unprecedented approach of selling their old stock at wholesale or below wholesale to free up shelf space, they did the same with Pannepot and a few others I believe. A local store near me now has new stock of Cantillon in at $23.99 a bottle; I'll be interested to see how quick they move at this price.
So, having access to these great beers is all well and good, but if a retailer has to resort to huge discounts to sell through.....then that will only harm the market and make agents less likely to bring in quantities of high end product, and maybe prevent stores from stocking.
atomeyes wrote:
"Think about the poor beer drinkers in Northern Ontario!" you cry out? If food and drink selection meant that much to them, then either a) they wouldn't be living in Northern Ontario, and b) someone smart enough would open a liquor store to meet that demand..
A. Some people have no choice but to live there. It's not like southern Ont where you can move around fairly freely - a lot of the northerners are in forestry and mines, and that's a near-dead job market.
B. You wildly overestimate the intelligence of most entrepeneurs up there. To be fair, My brother's LCBO did not believe that Red Racer existed for many months, so it's possible that the Northern Ontario commies are every bit as stupid as the Northern Ontario cons.
Glad to have brought the LULZ though!
Edit - to say it again, even if the stores become private, My guess is those labs 9and/or social responsibility) aren't closing anytime soon, and we're still not getting our Cantillon.
