Hey everyone, I don't post on here, but need to after reading all this. Thanks first, for all the people defending Smokeless Joe. If someone doesn't like my place, then don't come. Its plain and simple. We have a good core of regular customers and this year is a record year. I don't post new arrivals on here, but we usually sell out within a month. We are always getting new stuff in. And yes there is somewhat of a secret list of product that are scarce, just look at rate beer or beer advocate. We even brought in beers that no one has rated yet. But our selection is still,if not more, than three or four years ago. Our job has establishment owners is to have 7 out of ten customers repeat. And we do that. I'm sorry about problems lately with our staff, but this is the time of year where our staff go back to school and new staff come. It does take some time for training them. As for our food, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but we are in Toronto life Restaurant guide two years running and we have sold more food than ever before. We have had about four favorable reviews in the past year and a half. As for the type of beer I bring in, its geared towards what our customers want. There was a time during this past winter and spring that new beers weren't coming in. My mom had a stroke and she can't be left alone in the daytime. My family is more important, than bringing in new beers all the time. I lost my dad, not too long ago, and mom is 86. She is a tough lady and that was my main concern.
As for the prices, we are still cheaper than most of the bars in the area. As for comparing places, as a beer bar owner, I'm always sending people to good beer establishments across the city. Please don't make this a competition, because there is none on my part and I hope not from other bar owners as well. I'm always pointing out to customers all the good beer bars in the city. Beer Bistro, Volo and C'est What ,can attest to that. We work together not against each other. My staff fequent the other places as well, we all help each other out.
As for Peter's comments. I'd say that 95% of bartowellers are great customers of ours, but there are that 5% that frankly, are a pain in the ass. Has nothing to do with Bartowel itself. In certain groups, there is always going to be 5% of people that are rude or demanding or not happy with what we have. So I don't think you should take offense , not 100% of the population are great customers. At Smokeless, we try to offer, not just beer, but an experience.. Its about our food (might not be everybody's cup of tea), our staff. Customers come in just to see them. And of coarse the whole package. Sorry for this huge reply. Stop complaining and be happy. There is more to life than beer. Go out and support the places you like to frequent, don't go to the places you don't like. Its hard enough trying to expand the beer culture in Toronto, and this thread doesn't help. Have a great day. And please be happy. I am.
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Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
Smokeless Joe overrated
Joe's right on the money when he talks about beer bars supporting one another. I have never heard a single word against Smokeless, or any of the other handful of great beer bars in Toronto from one of the owners. They all realise what a tough slog it is improving the beer scene and that they are stronger standing together than fighting one another for market share. C'est What, Volo, Ciro's, beerbistro, Smokeles Joe's and others like this offer an oasis from the MolBatt ocean out there. Please be grateful and support them whenever possible. In Ottawa we have nothing like those places (with the possible exception of Pub Italia), so i know what gems they really are.
"Every day above ground is a good one."
Hey Sac,
Good post, good points, and I hope you don't take any of the above posts too hard or personally. I should have added that from my experience, the ambience, food and staff are nothing short of great at Smokeless, and I look forward to checking out your new offerings sometime soon.
Good post, good points, and I hope you don't take any of the above posts too hard or personally. I should have added that from my experience, the ambience, food and staff are nothing short of great at Smokeless, and I look forward to checking out your new offerings sometime soon.
Okay, let's not go nuts here.There is more to life than beer.
Despite literally working a block away (Peter and Adelaide), i rarely make it to Smokeless, but when i do, i very much enjoy it, my only dissapointment is the last time i was in with an English Friend it was specificially because i know Smokeless has a hand pump, which sadly was out, but also an unavoidable situation given the nature of Cask beer, it just can' be kept sitting around waiting to be sold like normal kegs.
So we enjoyed a couple of pints of the other drafts, and headed on our merry way to the Argos game.
I don't think anyone on here who is a real beer geek doubts the hard work that the Beer Bar Owners and operators go to to bring in good beer, we all know the hoops and such the LCBO makes everyone jump through, and the stress it no doubt causes.
So with that, i say thanks to the owners of the fine establishments at Smokeless, Volo, C'est What, Ciro's, Beerbistro and the like, they provide opportunities for us to enjoy good beers without having to go to the trouble of importing them ourselves, and hopefully provide a chance to indoctinate others into the Cult of Good Beer so that someday we may be able to have the choice of buying the beers we want in a store or at a bar whenever we like, not just whenever they can be brought through the system.
So we enjoyed a couple of pints of the other drafts, and headed on our merry way to the Argos game.
I don't think anyone on here who is a real beer geek doubts the hard work that the Beer Bar Owners and operators go to to bring in good beer, we all know the hoops and such the LCBO makes everyone jump through, and the stress it no doubt causes.
So with that, i say thanks to the owners of the fine establishments at Smokeless, Volo, C'est What, Ciro's, Beerbistro and the like, they provide opportunities for us to enjoy good beers without having to go to the trouble of importing them ourselves, and hopefully provide a chance to indoctinate others into the Cult of Good Beer so that someday we may be able to have the choice of buying the beers we want in a store or at a bar whenever we like, not just whenever they can be brought through the system.
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I don't think we'll ever have the kind of quality pubs here that the British, Europeans, and some Americans have easy access too. Whether it be the LCBO, the high licence fees for owners, or the bar as restaurant culture, there are just too many obstacles in the way.
On that last point even here on Bartowel when posters review a new pub they spend as much time talking about the food as the beer. Some here have said they can't go to a place unless there's good food so the wife will be interested. No wonder there are few places specialising in beer - they'd go broke in no time. In the UK, Ireland, Holland, Belgium, and numerous other countries most people go to pubs primarily to drink and chat - though often food is also available, particularly at lunch time. If they're mainly interested in eating they'll generally go to a restaurant instead. In Ontario pubs are basically restaurants that just happen to have a bar and beer, and that's the way the people here like it so it's unlikely to change.
On that last point even here on Bartowel when posters review a new pub they spend as much time talking about the food as the beer. Some here have said they can't go to a place unless there's good food so the wife will be interested. No wonder there are few places specialising in beer - they'd go broke in no time. In the UK, Ireland, Holland, Belgium, and numerous other countries most people go to pubs primarily to drink and chat - though often food is also available, particularly at lunch time. If they're mainly interested in eating they'll generally go to a restaurant instead. In Ontario pubs are basically restaurants that just happen to have a bar and beer, and that's the way the people here like it so it's unlikely to change.
Peter made a very reasonable point that BT'ers can be a bit thin-skinned.detritus wrote:Sure, but none of that excuses Peter for slagging his customers (humourously or not), then bitching when people get offended.
-Josh
I assumed he could take it as well as he could give it. Frankly I find people that aren't so easily offended much easier to be around.
In Beerum Veritas
I've had a run-in here with the overly sensitive esprit but I think he's right about <i>some</i> "beer geeks".
Last year I was in Volo one time talking about cask ale and Ralph mentioned that the week before he'd only sold something like 4 pints of the Wellington ale he had on - a lot of wasted beer. It seems that Wellington was just too common for beer geeks. If you're only going to drink ales you've never tasted before or seasonals don't expect real ale to catch on or pubs to cater to you. On the other hand it's so expensive to drink at pubs here it's understandable people would have that mentality.
Then there's the poseur mentality of a the couple of beer geeks I've met in person. They seem to like the idea that the masses don't drink what they do.
Like I said earlier there are too many obstacles in the way of greatly improving the beer scene in the Toronto area. It's disappointing that such a large city has so few options for those of us into good beer compared to smaller cities in other countries.
Last year I was in Volo one time talking about cask ale and Ralph mentioned that the week before he'd only sold something like 4 pints of the Wellington ale he had on - a lot of wasted beer. It seems that Wellington was just too common for beer geeks. If you're only going to drink ales you've never tasted before or seasonals don't expect real ale to catch on or pubs to cater to you. On the other hand it's so expensive to drink at pubs here it's understandable people would have that mentality.
Then there's the poseur mentality of a the couple of beer geeks I've met in person. They seem to like the idea that the masses don't drink what they do.
Like I said earlier there are too many obstacles in the way of greatly improving the beer scene in the Toronto area. It's disappointing that such a large city has so few options for those of us into good beer compared to smaller cities in other countries.
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old faithful
- Bar Fly
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Good point about most Ontario pubs (all, in fact) being essentially restaurants that serve beer. This I think comes from how they have to operate under law, I don't think you can have a bar that doesn't offer food service at all times. That encourages I would think a responsible atmosphere and presumably less drunkeness, which is a good thing.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for the English concept (and it exists elsewhere) of the beer pub, the pub whose stock in trade is by definition mainly beer. Food kind of gets in the way sometimes. English pubs with their long bars and few tables are set up differently than pubs here, they are set up for beer, it makes sense to stand against the bar, have a couple of pints, and leave to eat elsewhere, or later, except (maybe) as was said, at lunch. I find the beer tastes better that way often. Here, one is asked as soon as the pint is ordered what will you eat, and indeed seated at a restaurant table, that seems right to do...
Pros and cons to either system I suppose but sometimes I wish we had as an option the mainly-beer kind of pub, or say like Toronado in San Francisco where there is no food but you can bring in a piece of pizza from next door if you want.
Gary
On the other hand, there is something to be said for the English concept (and it exists elsewhere) of the beer pub, the pub whose stock in trade is by definition mainly beer. Food kind of gets in the way sometimes. English pubs with their long bars and few tables are set up differently than pubs here, they are set up for beer, it makes sense to stand against the bar, have a couple of pints, and leave to eat elsewhere, or later, except (maybe) as was said, at lunch. I find the beer tastes better that way often. Here, one is asked as soon as the pint is ordered what will you eat, and indeed seated at a restaurant table, that seems right to do...
Pros and cons to either system I suppose but sometimes I wish we had as an option the mainly-beer kind of pub, or say like Toronado in San Francisco where there is no food but you can bring in a piece of pizza from next door if you want.
Gary
Do you mean Wellington on cask? You say "too common" implying people are being elitists, but perhaps it just means people are expressing a preference for the other stuff available on tap. I love Wellington and I think they make a pretty solid product, but I usually reach for a Denisons or Black Oak when I am out in Toronto these days.Philip1 wrote:Last year I was in Volo one time talking about cask ale and Ralph mentioned that the week before he'd only sold something like 4 pints of the Wellington ale he had on - a lot of wasted beer. It seems that Wellington was just too common for beer geeks.
The Only Café on Danforth. Good take-out in the area. Good beer inside.old faithful wrote:sometimes I wish we had as an option the mainly-beer kind of pub, or say like Toronado in San Francisco where there is no food but you can bring in a piece of pizza from next door if you want.
Gary
I wish all places were this cool.
In Beerum Veritas
Mea culpa! Wellington is an awesome bottle brand (the Brown, Strong, Imperial ales) so while having those at the house I tend to overlook Welly on tap.JerCraigs wrote:I love Wellington and I think they make a pretty solid product, but I usually reach for a Denisons or Black Oak when I am out in Toronto these days.
Denison's Weisse is just a terrific fresh HW you can't get at home.
In Beerum Veritas
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John Aitken
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